By Max Musson:
Ashers Baking Company, a Christian family owned bakery in Belfast are currently threatened with legal action following their refusal to bake a cake bearing a slogan advocating homosexual marriage.
Ashers turned down an order to bake a cake featuring the slogan ‘Support gay marriage’ and bearing the logo of the homosexual rights campaign group, ‘Queer Space’.
Homosexual marriage is a highly divisive issue in Northern Ireland where the devolved assembly at Stormont has rejected several attempts to change the law on the issue.
The cake had been ordered by one Gareth Lee for an event at the town hall in Bangor, County Down, hosted by the mayor, Alliance Party member Andrew Muir, to mark International Day Against Homophobia and Transphobia on May 17.
Gareth Lee placed the order several weeks ago at a branch of Ashers in Belfast, one of six shops run by the Northern Ireland-based business, however the request was referred to the firm’s founders, Colin and Karen McArthur who declined to fulfil the order as it went against their religious beliefs.
Mr Lee is understood to have complained to the Equality Commission of Northern Ireland, which wrote to Ashers warning of legal action in the county court for breaching the law by discriminating against the customer on the grounds of his sexual orientation. The Equality Commission said it would consider Ashers’ response ‘before taking further action’.
Yesterday Andrew Muir of the Alliance Party said: “I fully support the action taken against this bakery. Businesses should not be able to pick and choose who they serve. There would not be any debate if the cake had depicted an anti-racism or anti-ageism slogan.”
Ashers General Manager, Daniel McArthur, responded saying he was determined to make a stand.
“I would like the outcome of this to be that any Christians running a business could be allowed to follow their Christian beliefs and principles in the day-to-day running of the business and that they are allowed to make decisions based on that,” he said.
“Although we have found this experience unsettling and disruptive to our business we are convinced that we have made the right decision,” he said. “We continue to take the stand and stance that we take. Marriage in Northern Ireland has not been redefined. It still is defined as being a union between one man and one woman.”
“It was in contradiction with what the Bible teaches and on the following Monday we rang up the customer to let him know that we could not take his order,” he said.
“I feel if we don’t take our stand with this case then how can we stand up against it further down the line, certainly from an equality point of view?”
Mr McArthur said the commission has asked how they propose to ‘compensate’ Mr Lee, but he pledged to resist its demands offering only a refund of the purchase price of the cake.
But Colin Hart, of the Christian Institute, which is backing Ashers, said: “All the McArthurs want is to run their bakery according to their Christian beliefs.
“Imbalanced equality laws are making it increasingly hard for people, especially Christians.”
The case is the latest in which Christians have faced the threat of court over their beliefs. Judges have ruled that it is wrong for businesses to refuse to serve gay people on grounds of religious conviction.
Ashers are however making a mistake and should have sought legal advice before speaking out in their defence. They have not refused to supply a cake to a homosexual man, which could have been construed as illegally discriminatory, they have refused to supply a cake that bears a political slogan and logo campaigning for something with which they disagree. They should not have made this a religious issue as religion, together with race and gender, is covered under the equalities legislation that exists in the UK.
Refusing to supply a cake bearing a political slogan with which one disagrees is perfectly legal, whereas under current legislation, refusing to supply goods on religious grounds is not.
Ashers should have refused to bake the cake on political grounds only, stating that the slogan requested is a political slogan and that the ‘Queer Space’ logo is also representative of a political pressure group. As such, Ashers would have been quite within their rights to refuse to bake the cake as requested, just as they would have been within their rights to refuse to bake a cake bearing the slogan, ‘Support Genetically Modified Foods’, for example.
I fear that because they have made this a religious issue, Ashers will now be forced to back down and compensate Queer Space, the homosexual group concerned, an outcome which could have been avoided had they not been so quick to trumpet their Christian reasons for the refusal.
By Max Musson © 2014
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Malachi Martin
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This is one of the rare times I would disagree with your conclusion Max. Seemingly, the Ashers do not want to side step the issue (the religious issue, if you like); I believe they want to test the courts on exactly that point. Now, perhaps it has already been tested and lost. I don’t know. I bet prison authorities are not permitted to feed a Jewish or Moslem inmate bacon for breakfast on account of their religion? Perhaps by sticking it up the Christians the Courts can show their true colours.
Max Musson
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I think it is evident that the Christians want to fight this on a matter of principle, but past cases involving homosexuals who wanted to share the same room in a guest house etc have shown that the courts will side with the homosexuals on a matter of religious principle. Ashers will therefore be on a hiding to nothing if they try to fight this as a religious issue of objection to homosexual marriage.
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They should have side-step the issue by objecting only on political grounds, stating a policy of not making cakes decorated for political purposes. Then they could have donated the money they would have saved in legal fees to a nationalist organisation where it may achieve something productive.
PharmaPhil
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Now that judge is having doubts!
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2663037/I-wrong-condemn-Christian-B-amp-B-owners-says-judge.html
PharmaPhil
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There’s another factor overlooked here & that’s copyright, do they even have the right to reproduce this image?
It’s not owned by “Queer Space” & there has been a huge argument already about these muppets not being gay or sexual in any way, due to them being meant for children.
So are they really promoting illegal homosexual paedophilia?
Maybe the copyright holders could put in a claim or an injunction over the use of these characters?
They could still demand a cake with the slogan on it I guess.
Anyway I’m off to see how my sausage rolls from the halal bakery are doing!
Walter Greenway
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Maybe Ashers should have baked the cake and just spat in it the old fashioned way.
Steven
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Well, at least they would be demonstrating their intolerance and bigotry in a honest way then, and not trying to hide it behind the cloak of religion like so many so-called ‘Christians’ do.
Brin of the family Jenkins
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I have just sent this on to Christian Voice, for their consideration. They are stalwart battlers.
Brin
PharmaPhil
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They sure are!
Shaun
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I think Max is right: they should battle these sick people on poltical grounds. Why allow these self-rightous homosexuals to battle through the courts in a way that allows them to win?
Steven
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Shaun, homosexuals do have rights. They didn’t choose to be homosexual (there is no reliable scientific evidence suggest that anybody’s sexuality (whether it be homosexual, bisexual or indeed straightness) is a conscious ‘choice’. The bakers have a right to their opinions but they don’t have a right to deny goods and services to homosexual or bisexual people. Why can’t Christians keep their opinions to themselves instead of seeking to force them upon others in society and indeed seek to do this by breaking the law? Britain is a largely secular nation now and we live by secular laws and not what is written in a dusty old book written thousands of years ago.
Max Musson
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You are almost certainly right about sexuality being primarily genetically determined, however homosexuals do have a choice regarding whether or not they campaign with the aim of having their condition regarded as normal.
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The homosexual group ‘Queer Space’ featured in this article, wanted a cake made that they would use as a promotional item, to promote the cause of homosexual marriage. As such Ashers should be quite within their rights to decline to make such a promotional item. Had they refused to provide Gareth Lee with an ordinary birthday cake, then that would have been illegally discriminatory, but Gareth Lee didn’t ask for an ordinary cake such as Ashers might ordinarily supply to any of their other customers, he asked for a promotional item that would be used to promote an aim to which the proprietors of Ashers are opposed.
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This is an example of a militant homosexual group seeking to force their views on the Northern Irish people, the majority of which do not want to recognise homosexual marriage. It is this kind of bullying by homosexual groups that stirs hostility towards homosexuals and any sensible homosexual would disapprove of the way Queer Space and the Equality Commission are attempting to bully Ashers.
Walter Greenway
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I don’t want these queers in my face all the time. What on earth is wrong with a good looking woman, for a man, as mother nature intended?
Steven
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Nothing but it rather depends upon how God made you, doesn’t it? If you were born exclusively homosexual then you are simply not going to be interested in a woman in a sexual way regardless as to whether she is very attractive or not.
We nationalists should understand this issue much better than lefties as our political philosophy is based-upon reality and seeing the world as it actually is rather than thinking a utopian fantasy ideal (in this case everyone in the world being straight) can actually be achieved.
PharmaPhil
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It isn’t really about their rights, it’s a political & publicity stunt meant to undermine the majority view.
It’s about their minority view trumping the majority view, hardly democratic.
It wouldn’t be done to a Jewish or moslem bakery, this does more damage to their cause than good as normal people get repulsed by their militant selfish antics.
Why shouldn’t a business decide what it will & won’t do?
There must be “Gay” bakers who want the business.
These bakers have decided to make a stand, whereas I would do the job….badly, no image & a spelling mistake, let them sue me, stall them & then when they go to court, pay the money back.
But deny them the drama & publicity they obviously want.
Steven
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People are entitled to their views but discrimination against homosexual and bisexual people in 2014 is simply unacceptable. The world has moved on and most people in the world now recognise the fact that homosexual and bisexual people are just people with a different sexuality to the majority and aren’t causing our societies any real harm.
MsBridgit
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Did you mean to say Homosexual Bakers? Gay bakers well that’s one for the books!
Shaun
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What are rights? In my opnion, they are a social construct that has no basis in observable, objective reality. The German women who were gang raped by hordes of Asiatic savages at the end of WW2 didn’t have any rights, did they? Unfortnuetly, the people who would have protected them — the SS — were exterminated during the course of that brutal, stupid war. ”Rights”, therefore, are a function of power — if you have no power, you have no rights.
At the moment, the White race doesn’t have the ”right” to stop its own genocide.
These militant homosexuals are using the family-destroying agenda of the System to get their own way. Despite what you regard as a function of biology (homosexualty), what these people are doing is trying to normalize something that demotes the hertosexual family to a value rather than core foundation of our race. If homosexual marriage is ok, then miscegination is just another choice.
On a personal note, I have no problem with homosexuals; but they should accept that marriage and raising children isn’t for them — the descent ones already do!
PharmaPhil
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I think the militant homosexuals who want to normalise their behaviour & shove their rights in everyone’s face don’t realise how they are being used for a purpose & will be expendable once their usefulness runs out.
If islam gets the upper hand in a area let’s see how many rights they then have.
Steven
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I agree wholeheartedly about Islam and what that portends for homosexuals and bisexuals in particular (let alone the rest of us). I think that quite a few of them must be very anti-immigration. Marine Le Pen’s party has quite a few homosexual and bisexual supporters in its ranks (indeed, its no 2 guy (Marine’s deputy) is widely-rumoured to be gay himself.
Steven
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Well, I’m sorry but I have to disagree. I have no problem with them obtaining a CIVIL marriage as that is purely a function of the STATE that gives them the recognition they can form COMMITTED and LOVING long-term relationships just as straight people can which is the reason people get married. There is no valid reason why the STATE can’t confer the same rights on homosexual couples as straight couples in that regard seeing as homosexual couples do pay taxes to the British state.
The only gay reform Labour did I have any form of problem with was the gay adoption issue in which I think the evidence as to the rights and wrongs needs a bit further investigation and debate. It is on THAT issue the big fight should have been about rather than gay CIVIL marriage which is a complete irrelevance to anyone who isn’t gay.
Max Musson
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Marriage traditionally had three purposes, as described in the Catechism of the Council of Trent, 1982, page 344: “Marriage is the natural, indissoluble union, perfected by the Sacrament, between one man and one woman directed towards the purpose of preserving the human race by generating and raising children. Marriage is also ordered to the mutual help of spouses and the remedy for sexual desire. This definition of marriage as a natural institution can be arrived at by common sense. Nature implants in men and women an instinct that impels them to seek the companionship of marriage and in this companionship, husband and wife are able to hope for help and an easing of their physical discomforts as they get older.”
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Clearly, homosexual marriage falls short on the first of the purposes described here and so there is arguably a valid basis for differentiating between homosexual marriage and heterosexual marriage should one choose to do so. Furthermore, homosexual marriage is not an irrelevance if you happen to be a devout Christian who does not recognise that form of relationship.
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This principle involved in this matter regarding Ashers Bakery is not that they should be free to refuse to bake a cake for a homosexual customer, but simply that they should be free to refuse to bake a cake that is required to be decorated in such a way that it acts as promotional material for a political cause with which the proprietors of Ashers fundamentally disagree.
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Had the customer concerned asked Ashers to bake him an unmarked Victoria sponge cake, or a birthday cake with the words ‘Happy Birthday’ on it, then Ashers would not have been aware of the customer’s sexuality and they would not have had any reason to feel troubled or concerned. The cake requested though, was to have a political slogan on it that Ashers disagreed with and they should have the right to refuse to produce such a cake if they wish.
Shaun
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I used to be pro-gay and all that nonsence. Then I found out who promotes the Gay Movement and I realized it must be smashed. The solution to the ”Gay Problem” is very simple: if you must behave in that way, keep it to yourself and don’t try to impose your ”lifestyle” on other people. Also, we must face up to the fact that paedophilia is rife within certain sections of the gay community.
I have a gay friend who would murder somebody who messed with children, but he is a good guy — he doesn’t try to make his sexual orintation political. I don’t think any nationalist with an IQ above 70 is anti-gay. We are, however, fed up with the system using the assertion of homosexual rights as a way of destroying what is good about our people.
David Duke is right (he quotes Dostoyevsky): only beauty will save us….
SerpentSlayer
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You should be able to choose who you buy and sell to, at your own peril. If you dont want to sell to someone, that’s your own business.
Steven
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Well, I’m a bit overweight and I am sure many people would use that against me so should I be discriminated against by a business owner refusing to sell me his/her services and goods just because I am overweight? I think not. I also wouldn’t want an employer to discriminate against me on that basis and use it as a valid reason to refuse me employment.
PharmaPhil
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They might be doing you a favour then by refusing to sell you a cake?
PharmaPhil
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But the fact is that discrimination is already in place, already there are a lot of jobs that are not open to any obvious Nationalist & also whites come in second place where there are quotas & “positive discrimination” in force.
Schneider
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Order something from Ashers today if you can. Like them on facebook, “share” their advertisement. Make sure to leave them a note of support.
We must support those who take a stand.
Weard
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The freedom of choice that allows gays to get married should also apply to the bakers.
Why should anybody be forced to do anything they don’t want to do? How horrible.
Steven
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Christians have a right to their viewpoints BUT they need to be aware that Britain is now a secular society and religion CAN’T be used to justify discrimination, ill-treatment ect of those who don’t believe in religion. The law is secular in this country and will remain so. Fundamentalist Christians are just as bad as fundamentalist Islamics as BOTH of them believe they have a right to dictate how others should live and impose their views on society through the use of the law. Sorry, but I fundamentally disagree with that notion and believe religion should be kept to the private sphere of life and be a matter of personal conscience only.
Max Musson
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However in this case Steven, the Christians were not the ones trying to force their opinion on anyone, they simply chose not to play ball when the homosexual group asked them to bake a promotional cake bearing a slogan calling for something to which the bakers are opposed. They didn’t try to stop the homosexuals from obtaining a cake from elsewhere and they didn’t refuse to supply an ordinary non-political cake.
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It is the homosexual group that seeks to force Christian bakers to act against their conscience. As it was they were able to get the cake they wanted baked elsewhere and so no harm was done. End of story, or so it should be, except the homosexual group have complained to the Equalities Commission and persist in seeking to impose their will on the hapless bakers.
MsBridgit
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“BUT they need to be aware that Britain is now a secular society and religion CAN’T be used to justify discrimination”,
and like a violent overpopulated Multicultural society WHOSE EFFING FAULT IS THAT?
Steven
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Sorry, I am not quite sure what you actually mean by your post. What I am saying is that Britain is a secular society now and whilst Christians certainly do have the right to say and believe in anything they want they must accept that there is a difference between their beliefs and opinions and the SECULAR LAW of the land. In short, as a country, we don’t allow priests, churchmen ect to have the right to IMPOSE their views and beliefs on the rest of us THROUGH THE USE OF THE LAW and LEGISLATION.
If we didn’t do this we would be no different to Islamic fundamentalist hellholes like Pakistan where Imans tell Pakistani people what they can and can’t do.
Northern Resistance
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These links should be forwarded to the owners of this store:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FH8TOktZJNU
https://www.yourstrawman.com/
https://www.bbc5.tv/video/john-harris-its-illusion
I am well aware of the corrupt behaviour of the police/CPS/judicery etc but it astounds me more people are not educating themselves on the subject of law, i.e lawful & legal are two seperate entities, do not consent, however we shopuld use all tools available.
Max Musson
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The ideas expressed by the Lawful Rebellion people are all very interesting, but the de facto law of the land is the law as enforced by the state’s uniformed and ultimately armed enforcers, and however right Lawful Rebellion may be, all of their protestations are useless they have the ‘muscle’ required to defy those who would impose established law upon us.