Dear Joe,
Western Spring has recently devoted much time, money and effort to holding a conference of movement leaders, with a view to promoting nationalist unity and as a first step eliminating the deplorable tendency on the part of many individuals within our movement, who routinely condemn anyone they disagree with or take a personal dislike to, as either a ‘spy’ or ‘traitor to our cause’.
Joe, you will recall that I invited you to attend that conference, but sadly you declined.
You were not the only person invited who declined to attend, although out of those who declined, you are probably the person who had the most to gain from the experience and who is the poorer for not having attended.
I have previously approached you privately, on two or three occasions, asking to meet. This has been in recognition that you have obviously put considerable effort into making your videos and you appear to be sincere in your efforts.
As I said in my original open letter to you, Joe, you have on numerous occasions now asked viewers of your videos to provide you with feedback, to tell you when you might be going wrong, and more recently to explain to you what alternatives there may be to electoral politics when it comes to acquiring political power.
In my open letter I stated, “If you are genuine in these requests and they are not just rhetorical devices, I would like the opportunity of obliging”, but as we have seen Joe, you have been disinclined to take me up on that offer.
The feedback that I offered in my initial open letter was that your habit of summarily denouncing other nationalists is counter-productive for our movement.
In my open letter, I stated, “I appreciate that you are sincere in what you do, but so far you have named and denounced, either as a conscious agent of our enemies, or as a ‘useful idiot’, virtually everyone who has either held, currently holds, or who aspires to hold a leadership position in British nationalism. In doing so you will of course, by use of this scatter gun approach, have been right in your denunciations in some instances, but you must also appreciate that you will be entirely wrong on others, and through your actions you will, if not careful, completely denude nationalism of all its potential leaders and make yourself a lot of enemies into the bargain. This is not a sensible approach.”
You will notice Joe, that I didn’t suggest that you have been calling everyone an agent of our enemies, because you have by your own admission reserved a second category for other people, describing them as ‘useful idiots’ or ‘people who take in washing’.
In your response to my previous open letter, you maintained a pretence that I have accused you of claiming that everyone is a ‘spy’, but this is not the case. You then proceeded in your response to slander again those you regard as ‘spies’ and to label everyone else, with the exception of Derek Beacon, as ‘people who take in washing’, i.e. as nincompoops, thereby rather proving me right.
As for Derek Beacon, well he often attends the London Forum and while I can’t at this stage be sure, there is a strong possibility that Derek took part in the march organised by Jez Turner, which you featured in your video response, describing and slandering the participants as ‘Untermenschen’.
So, it appears that according to you, everyone of note within nationalism is either on your two-dozen strong list of ‘spies’, or on your three or four-dozen strong reserve list of spies, or is a ‘useful idiot’, ‘someone who takes in washing’, or an ‘Untermensch’, and all this from the man who thinks we should charm our way to power through the ballot box!
I could go on Joe, and deliver a devastating critique of many of your other pronouncements, including your insistence that ‘electoral politics is the only way’, but I won’t at this stage, because I believe you to be a sincere man, albeit gravely mistaken in a number of respects. However, I hope that I have now demonstrated to you, that you are in dire need of advice from someone with some skill in the field of public relations.
If you carry on the way you are going, spraying insults in every direction, you will shortly have no-one left who has not been insulted by you, and no-one who will pay attention to any of the valid observations and tactical suggestions you have made.
Joe, by your own admission you have, “lived in the sewer” most of your life, you have, “swam with rats and hyenas” and I believe that as a professional doorman you have unfortunately seen far more of the seedier side of life than is healthy, and this has given you a jaded opinion of your fellow man and has got you into the habit of making rash, snap decisions about people.
On the doors of a night club, a doorman is responsible for selecting who should or should not have access to a club, and in doing so is required to make on the spot judgements as to whether someone is a threat or safe to be allowed in. You may therefore have grown accustomed to thinking in terms of ‘black and white’, that someone is either harmless, or a ‘wrong ‘un’. Unfortunately Joe, life away from the night club door is rather more complicated than that and if you are to play a key role in saving our people you must develop a somewhat more flexible approach.
People sometimes make the mistake of thinking that they ‘know it all’, that there is nothing left that they need to learn. In reality they simply do not yet know enough to know of the existence of all the things they don’t yet know.
A very wise boss of mine was fond of a saying that “a wise man can learn, even from a fool, but a fool cannot learn, even from a wise man”. Now, I’m not suggesting that you are a fool Joe, far from it, but I would like to meet you because I believe there is much we can learn from each other. We won’t know of course, unless we take the opportunity to meet.
You are reluctant to meet unless I publicly denounce someone as an agent of our enemies, the secret state etc., however while I may have my suspicions about certain people and not completely trust everyone, I do not have irrefutable evidence that would stand up to scrutiny in the libel courts, and so I will resist that temptation. I do not intend making any public pronouncements until irrefutable evidence is at hand.
Joe, you have revealed uncharacteristic shyness in response to my open letter, refusing to meet me because you, “don’t know [me]”, I’ve “got no history”, you “know nothing about [me]”, and further, you “only trust people [you] know”. However you do know and trust Richard Edmonds, Joe. You have stated, “I’d meet with Richard all day long”.
You also trust Keith Axon, and so as a compromise, and so that no-one need feel shy or unduly exposed, I suggest that all four of us meet for lunch, if the others are agreeable: you, me, Richard Edmonds and Keith Axon.
I therefore extend the hand of friendship once more, renewing my offer to buy us all lunch at a venue of your choosing, in the hope that you will respond positively this time, and that we can work together to build the nationalist movement we all want to see.
Regards,
Max Musson © 2016
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SerpentSlayer
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Seems like a lot of effort to let this blustering fool continue to cast aspersion from inside western spring rather than outside of it.
The man is clearly mad and in love with the sound of his own voice. If he is of no use and only works to cause distrust and internal strife, why extend the olive branch?
Maybe he has uses I am not aware of, but it seems unwise to waste time on someone who only seems to cause trouble and attack nationalists.
Max Musson
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No. The objective here is to make Joe realise the error in what he has been doing.
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He must learn that if someone is behaving in an inexplicable or ostensibly suspicious way, that in itself is not ‘proof’ that they are up to no good. We might choose not to trust them entirely, or we might privately be wary of them, but we should not denounce people as traitors or spies until there is irrefutable proof, and we certainly should not denounce dozens of people in that way unless we want the whole nationalist movement to become moribund through mutual suspicion and mistrust.
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Regarding Western Spring, it is evident that Joe has only read one or two of our articles on the futility of electioneering in the current environment and the camps we have organised through Legion MAC in the Welsh mountains. He refers to nothing else in his condemnation of us and this indicates that he knows nothing else about us. This is something that I hope to correct and if Joe continues to attack us after that, then we will know that he is spreading dissention and division deliberately, and the whole movement will need to act to isolate and discredit him.
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I can see that Joe has the potential to be of influence within the nationalist movement, let’s hope he does not waste that potential through destructive behaviour.
Bentley Graves
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Joe has another video out this evening and he accuses a host of people of being spies again!
Michael Woodbridge
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Max had the good sense, along with one or two others of whom I think very highly, to warn me about the perfidious nature of another vacuous “nationalist” wannabe from Southport. As SerpentSlayer asks, why give time to someone whose only real talent would seem to be in sowing dissension as a means of self-promotion?
Stefan
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I think if someone was considered to be “state” then sideline them, isolate them & move on without further delay.
Yes “they” are out to get us but constant paranoia is negative & unhelpful, time is short, a sea change is underway, we think we know where this is all headed & who is responsible, so plan for that eventuality.
I don’t think Joe Owens has anything to offer, more like Joe Blow, most people don’t particularly like him, they say he makes a few good points but the paranoia overwhelms it & he has no new ideas.
His moment has passed.
I appreciate Max making the effort but I don’t think Joe does.
Stefan
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The overall impression I get is that Max can find a lot of interesting people to lunch with but Joe pretty much eats alone.
Stefan
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With all Joe’s time in these sort of politics, he doesn’t know (of) Max?
That seems odd to say the least of it.
Tony l
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Joe is right that state actors put their oar in when things started to go bad for the BNP. However, they didn’t start the problems. Nick Griffin did that with his disastrous Question Time performance. After that, lots of unhappy BNP members acted in various ways. Griffin sacked as many as he could to preserve his own position at the expense of the party… And the party fell apart.
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Unfortunately, JO demonstrates (again) why he is largely ignored when he accuses half a dozen people of being state including Bob Bailey. Joe won’t know, but everyone in London and for fifty miles around knows that Bob Bailey was only one of 2 or 3 competent councillors that we had. Indeed, it was down to BB that we had so many councillors at all as it was largely down to him (I helped on just 1 or 2 evenings) contacting every enquiry we had to increase our candidate numbers (ok, so 2 or 3 of them were a waste of space, but we felt that beggars couldn’t be choosers and Labour got by with similar wasters).
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What JO demonstrates is that when confronted by something that they can’t understand, they immediately put the ‘state’ tag onto it. As Simon Smith (W Mids Regional Organiser a long time ago) said, JO is a grade A fighting man, but a grade C thinker.
Julie Lake
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I have to say, that given JO reputation, that Max should be respected for standing up to him and offering to meet him. That’s something the other accuser from Southport, could never do. In my experience, nationalists do not generally accuse others of being spies. In fact, i don’t believe i have ever heard anyone else make accusations, even of just one nationalist, let alone, a whole list. Yet, these two, do nothing else, all day long. I always believed it was a case of hmmmm, me thinks the lady doth protest too much. Especially, when, they don’t just say it once, they bang on and on for months on end, believing that if they say it long enough and hard enough, they will convince someone, yet invariably, it tends to begin to look a little suspicious. With JO, even if he names 20 people, by law of averages, he’s going to get lucky on one or two. He just happened to get lucky with Dawn Charlton, but she was the only one of two, i have ever seen him proved right on. The other being the Southport informer, exposed as a grass by Hope Not Hate. He’s now frantically posting everywhere that myself and Jez Turner, along with Max are agents to distract attention away from that article exposing him. With him, the one’s he accuses, are the one’s who reject him as a non white fake nationalist. With JO, it seems, he just likes the attention.
Eddie Stampton
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Who is this person from Southport you lot are referring to? Is it A.L?
Folkvar
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It’s highly unlikely every nationalist leader is going to want to get involved, so just work with those that want to and leave the rest on the sidelines. If they wish to isolate themselves through paranoia, ego, anger or whatever then let them. Maybe if you open up the private online forum (I mentioned in another post) just for nationalist leaders and invite them all in those reluctant today may, in time, come around. In the meantime move forward with those that want to get involved and keep the olive branch out for those that don’t right now.
JOHNNY LEECH
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I can’t see how Joe Owens can have any real first hand knowledge of the London BNP in 2010. As far as I know Joe wrote his book and was not active in the movement, yes I read his book and it did alert me to some very poor Griffin decisions back in 2009.
I have watched two of these videos in the last twelve months, much of what Joe spouts doesn’t hold water so why bother with a dialogue and a meeting? I was in the company of a number of long time Nationalists last week and they thought Joe Owens videos were comical! Alas maybe they have some entertainment value.
Max Musson
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I take on board what you say and I think you are right. My focus on Joe Owens in recent articles was in response to his allegations that I and Western Spring are ‘agents of the secret state’. Such accusations are slanderous and in the normal course of events, we would have the remedy of being able to sue the person spreading such allegations, however I believe Joe Owens to be in legal parlance ‘a man of straw’, i.e. someone with so little in the way of personal assets that it would be a pointless and expensive waste of time suing him.
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In one of his earlier videos Joe Owens raises the fact that people he has slandered haven’t taken him to task over his allegations, and his assumption has been that if people don’t confront him then that should be taken as an admission of guilt. So I have confronted him, albeit in an unusually polite way, and while he has continued to defame other people, he appears to have thought again and stopped defaming me. Let us hope that lasts.
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I know that many people find Joe’s many mannerisms, digressions, repetitions and his malapropisms quite funny, but beneath all of that I sense that he is honest in his endeavours and although his paranoia has caused him to unfairly condemn a number of people I believe to be good nationalists, he has undoubtedly been right with some of his accusations, and many of his tactical and strategic observations have also been accurate.
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I’m very fond of the principle that wherever possible we should have people with us, ‘inside the tent, pissing out’, rather than ‘outside the tent, pissing in’, and this is why I have felt it appropriate to expend some effort to get Joe more on our side.